The 'Work Family' Myth: Ushering in Authentic Workplace Connections

Kylie Speer [00:00:00] Well, hello, everyone. Welcome to today's webinar,The 'Work Family' Myth: Ushering in Authentic Workplace Connections brought to you by Indeed and HRD. My name is Kylie Speer. And I'm so happy to be your host over the next hour that we have together. Thank you all so much for joining us today. Our intention for today's webinar is for it to be as informative and interactive as possible. So just a couple of housekeeping items to begin with. You will notice there are a number of polls incorporated in today's presentation as well as a q&a session at the very end. I'd like to encourage you all to please participate in the polls and to submit as many questions as you'd like via the q&a or chat function. Your questions can be anonymous, or if you'd like a shout out, feel free to include your name and organization too. And lastly, just a reminder that today's webinar is being recorded and it will be emailed to you all after its conclusion. So firstly, just a little bit about Indeed, as the number one source of hires worldwide. Indeed, simple and powerful tools let you source screen and hire faster, because finding the best fit for the job shouldn't be a full time job. Our presenter today is Lauren Anderson, Indeed Australia's Talent Strategy Advisor. In her role, Lauren works with businesses to innovate traditional recruitment processes, get creative with employer branding and prioritize diversity and equity in the workplace. Welcome to you, Lauren. Thank you so much for sharing your wealth of expertise with us all. I will now hand it over to you to begin today's presentation. 

Lauren Anderson [00:02:00]  

Thanks so much, Kylie, what a kind introduction what a way to start the day. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone, wherever you're joining us from today, I am incredibly stoked to be coming to you on this webinar. I want to acknowledge that today I'm joining you from the land of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation. And I'd like to extend my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. My name is Lauren Anderson, my pronouns are she her and I work as a Talent Strategy Advisor at Indeed. Now that's a title that probably doesn't mean much to anyone outside of my immediate workplace, and perhaps it would get a little red flag. But today, it's a green flag because I get to be on this wonderful webinar speaking to you. So what is not to love? So what are we going to cover today? Today, I really want to talk about this work family myth, and the realities of what job seekers think about that. And also other red flags. And we're going to have a look at some of the data around what job seekers really want. And based on this research, how can we communicate our employer brands better, without accidentally falling into red flag traps or marketing tropes? So now that I've told you who I am, you might be wondering are 'What does indeed have to say about this?'. So as Kylie mentioned, that is the number one job site worldwide with a global reach of 60 countries and 13 million visits here in Australia each month, you could say we know a fair bit about job seeker behavior. In fact, we've perhaps had a glow up since maybe we last spoke to some of you with a 57% increase in traffic since April 2021, and a 56% increase in unique visitors. We've invested heavily over this period in marketing efforts and product improvements that are simplifying the job search process and making it easier to connect job seekers to employers and their opportunities. And so that's more people are viewing the jobs on Indeed, more people reviewing potential employers on Indeed company pages and Glassdoor, who is our partner as well. So today, I wanted to share some of those job seeker insights with you the data that we capture, both from the platform, but also in our research here in Australia. What are their red flags and green flags for job seekers in today's market? Are we perhaps inadvertently raising red flags to our employees and our candidates and job seekers by playing into language or stereotypes that maybe worked historically, and particularly in this post pandemic landscape? I'm sure we can all acknowledge that the world is a very different place. Now this concept of red flags might feel a little bit familiar. Perhaps you've seen it on your social media feed. And so I wanted to share with you a little um reel of some of the red flying content that I'm getting served across TikTok probably because I'm quite interested in this trend. But if you've seen this, as you'll know, once your algorithm starts sharing it with you, you really cannot escape these red flags.  

TikTok Videos [00:05:04] Red flags at work that might look like green flags, let me tell you how to avoid these three red flags you got to look out for. Red flags, here are five red flags to look out for. A massive red flag in the workplace is where you hear these dreaded lines. Similarly to dating, when you're looking for a new job, you gotta be on the lookout for red flags. 

TikTok Videos [00:05:27] Now that I no longer work in the HR space, I feel like now is a perfect time to talk about workplace red flags. 

Lauren Anderson [00:05:35] So what are red flags in the workplace? What are some of the trends that these influencers on TikTok are alluding to? Now, I want to rewind just a tiny bit traditionally, red flags are used to signal danger, or issues that require a person's attention. It's always a bit contentious, where the original what the original intention was of some of these emojis. And there's some belief that the red flag emoji that you've seen in those clips was actually used originally, to describe the flags found on a golf course, but now is absolutely been co opted by social media users and repurpose the emojis meaning into the kind of red flag that is associated with bad behavior. Now, this originally started out as dating red flags or relationship red flags, it's become synonymous of warning others of danger in any setting such as the workplace. Now, in a number of cases, this is a warning sign about a toxic company culture that can be gleaned from a job ad or the career page of a company, maybe warning people what to look out for in those first interviews. So I wanted to put, I guess, I wanted to put to you what you think is maybe a red and a green flag. Now, if we were out there in the big bad world face to face, I would have handed you some beautiful red and green flags now. But since we're on a webinar, we're going to use the polls that are going to pop up on your screen. So I'm going to share some statements from job ads. And I want to know your thoughts. Do you think it's a red flag, which is you know, that it's questionable that perhaps it points to a toxic company culture or something that a job seeker should be aware of? Or is it a green flag, and perhaps it's fine. In fact, it's encouraged to ask for this from a job site down, and the internet is just being a tad dramatic. So let's have a look at our first one. In the job ad, we're looking for someone who's very resilient, would you say this is a red flag or a green flag? And we'd love to know your votes. And then we will share this and share the results with you and see how you differ from your peers on the call today. 

Lauren Anderson [00:07:41] And the wonderful Jess, who's driving for me today, Jess whenever you think that there, we've got enough responses in there, please feel free to share that fantastic. Oh, we've got a majority red flag for this particular one. Interesting. Alright, let's, let's dial it up a little bit, must be able to handle a high stress environment, would you say this is a red flag or a green flag? While you're answering that I just want to point out we have captured these from job ads across Australia in the past couple of months. I'm always on the lookout for some interesting responses. So I my gut instinct is we're going to see more red than green in this case, but I'm interested to see the results. Okay, this one really sort of led in a red flag direction. Interesting. Okay, let's have a look at another one. How about this one? This was really popular when I was certainly looking for work, the ability to work in a fast paced environment with tight deadlines. Is it a red flag? Or is this fair enough? And this is a legitimate workplace environment that someone might need to, you know, be brilliant at. Let's say last one was 86% said red flags. So in this instance, we're looking at much more of a green flag. Interesting, but still some people out there saying that it's a warning sign for them. No doubt. How about a candidate who's a self starter? What's it really saying for people, is it sending up a red flag for some job seekers? Or do you think this is a green flag for the right kind of person? And maybe the internet's been a tad dramatic? In this case? No right or wrong answer here. Of course, just some interesting thoughts to consider. Oh, it's a green flag. Okay. We'd like self starters in this world. We're into it on today's call. We're big fan of people who can get it going. How about the willingness to wear multiple hats and go above and beyond? This was taken from a job ad for a role I applied for many moons ago. And I do see it you know, popping up every now and again in certain sectors and industries. It still has its popularity in some spaces red flag or green flag. Okay, so a little bit more split 65% Red Flag and 35% green flag in this instance. How about this one we work hard play hard here. Red flag or green flag? For you, you know, even thinking about it from your perspective. If you were reading this in a job ad today, what would you think about this? Would it strike fear into your heart? Are you running in the direction of this opportunity? And this workplace culture? Again, probably certain industries find these, we find these more and more often in some of those spaces. All Okay, whoa, interesting. Work hard play hard, really splitting the room. I'm intrigued to join our young and dynamic team. Now this is perhaps alluding to something a little bit different. But you know, would you feel comfortable including this in a job ad? Would you feel comfortable reading this yourself? Does it tell you good things? Does it tell you potentially bad things about that business? What is it sending up a warning signal young and dynamic team? 

Lauren Anderson [00:11:23] All right, it's let's say, interesting, it's a little bit more of a red flag for people. I know that in today's market, this can be a signal of ageism. In the workplace, it can certainly send up a red flag for some job seekers in some markets. Now look, finally, the one we're here to really talk about today. We're a big family here. Now, I don't want to lead you down the garden path, I would like to know do you think personally, that being a big family or reading about this in a job ad would be or a company page would be a red flag or a green flag. And then we'll set the same for some just some thoughts I'd like to share with you from a job seeker perspective. And maybe how this is perceived and maybe how it has changed over time. But for our attendees on the call, today, it is 64% Red Flag and 36% green flag. So still some people out there who are who you know, are into the work family, which is absolutely your persuasion, no dramas there. But I'm interested to see whether this would change as we continue our journey today. So let's unpack this work family concept. You know, why have we put together an entire webinar about maybe this being a potential red flag for job seekers? What how did we get here and what has changed? Before we get there? Let's rewind a little bit. Where did this come from? So according to cultural anthropologist, Dr. Alex Gadda, there is a there's been a large familial element or true family element to work throughout the portion of history, hunters and gatherers would move in small groups consisting of different families. Now, that's way back when, right? A little bit more, you know, recent, perhaps farmers genuinely had tended to have lots of children in order to help tend to their land. And come the Industrial Revolution skills were often taught to children or families. So skills were passed on from say, you know, parent to child, a blacksmith might teach his son the trade. And then a factory may employ multiple generations of the same family. Because as we were less, you know, mobile in our, you know, broader communities in states in country who are more likely to be employed at the same place that perhaps our parents were employed. And now this may still exist in some industrial working class communities that have strong ties to local community. But for most businesses, this is no longer literal. We are no longer literally employing family members. It's more of a figurative concept. Now, it's true, there are warm feelings associated with the word family. It is a place of protection. It's a place of growth, people go the extra mile for family members and unless you've had maybe a negative experience in your personal upbringing, most people have pretty positive feelings about families in general and the word family. It's generally the intention when businesses use this language to describe their culture is to describe a special bond between, you know, members of that team or members of that business. Now, this phrase when it entered our workforce lexicon certainly had good intentions. However, labeling a company or organization as a family does have the potential to send the opposite message. If the workplace really is like a family, then perhaps it speaks to blurred boundaries, or unrealistic expectations, or risk the rise of exploitative behaviors rather than the good vibes that were absolutely intended when someone wrote this in their job ad or on their careers page. The reality is that workplaces and families are different. We did not sign contracts when we joined our families. 

Lauren Anderson [00:15:07] Organizations that adopt familiar language can selectively leverage this idea to their advantage. It very much sits in the hands of the organization. I use still a family when cost cutting measures necessitate layoffs. Or when an employee asks for a pay rise, or in a, you know unfortunate circumstance during disciplinary action. The reality is, is that my family's tried and true options have the silent treatment, grounding or banning the internet. Probably not going to cut the mustard for disciplinary action with an HR framework. So in the end, using family language can blur these lines and confuse the usual work agreement unless we're being explicit about where our family starts and ends. You know, are we really setting people up for success? Are people looking for a family at work these days? What are they looking for in this modern world of work? Now Ozzie workers are certainly looking for something. Our recent research into wellbeing in the workplace confirmed that 50% of Australian workers are likely to look for a new job in the next 12 months, with almost a quarter saying that they are very likely to do so. And so how is this so because according to the research, we are happier as Australian workers in 2020 to 60% of workers reported feeling happy at work most of the time, which rose to 68% in 2023. That's higher than the average 56% across other international markets that we surveyed. Were also more satisfied Australian workers also report an increase in overall satisfaction at work rising from 55% in 2022, to 65% in 2023, with just over a fifth of those workers agreeing that they are completely satisfied with their job. So Good work, everyone. We're definitely doing something right out there in our workplaces, we have a sense of purpose. Almost four in 570 8% of workers agree that they have a clear sense of purpose in their work, and number that has been on the rise since 2022, when 65% of workers reported the same. So things are looking pretty good for Australia workers more broadly. However, despite these positive moves these upward trends. As I said, 50% of Australian workers are looking for a new opportunity this year. And perhaps it's to do with this, less than one in four workers are thriving, meaning the majority of us are not thriving. The workplace goes beyond simply being happy at work, and takes a more holistic view of a person's overall well being in a professional setting. Maybe the markers of what it means to feel successful at work have changed. That thriving is no longer purpose and happiness, that maybe there are other things we might have overlooked. So what do jobseekers really want? Let's take a closer look at what thriving means to Australian workers. I think it's fascinating to discover that a substantial 44% of respondents indicate that having a good work life balance is a core component of their definition of thriving. This statistic underlies quite a crucial point. This harmonious work life balance isn't merely a preference. It's a fundamental aspect of overall wellbeing, particularly in the Australian market. We don't see scores this high in an international context. It's quite, you know, interesting cultural element. Regardless of how I cut my data when we get job seeker updates annually. There is always work life balance, featuring in those sort of top three benefits, or Top Three Reasons to apply for a new job. What makes this finding even more intriguing to me is that work life balance scored higher than other well being factors that have been considered markers of great success in the past satisfaction happiness, both of which showed improvements from previous years. And it suggests that despite overall positive trends, this work life balance pace remains the gate that job seekers or employees need to pass through in order to see the value of other elements in their workplace. Moreover, given the topic of conversation, today's work families which for all intents and purposes can be extrapolated to work relationships. I think it's interesting to note how far down the list positive relationships with colleagues actually sits right at the bottom there are 24%. But you know what, this is actually where the tricky part is. This is where the the challenge is in all of our workplaces in Australia. Nearly one in five people experience poor mental health each year, and nearly half of us will experience poor mental health during our lives. This is a huge challenge for Australians. Loneliness. Our report found that 24% of Australian workers report feelings of loneliness and isolation in their current or most recent job. This tracks in line with the study done by the Australian psychology society, which found that one in four Australians are lonely, and lonely Australians have worse physical and mental health and are more likely to become depressed. There's a pretty compelling story for building connection at work. When we asked, you know, workers who have a close friend at work, what impact they believe it has on their well being 74% believe it has a positive impact on this. What's more, seven in 10 workers agree that you know, having a close friend at work positively influences employee retention, and boosts productivity and engagement at work. So these are pretty strong findings. These are quite compelling to a few metrics that I know you know, what you on this call will be keeping an eye on. However, the challenge lies in the fact that only one in three workers or 36% admit they have at least one workplace friend that they can count on. This issue becomes even more pronounced amongst remote workers where the percentage drops to 25%. So only a quarter of our remote workers feel they have a work friend that they can count on. Which is tricky when we see so many positivity is from having a close connection. So it can actually be so important to retention, productivity engagement, but we're not allowed to sing the praises of our work family. What on earth do we do? You know, I've essentially given you a bit of a wicked problem here. So you've got an amazing culture, you want to sing about it from the rooftop, and I want to borrow a phrase and some wisdom from my dear friend Brene. Brown the ultimate give her of wisdom to a lot of people. She says clear is kind unclear is unkind. Work family as a term is murky. There are a number of those as as are a number of those red flag terms. You know, they say one thing, but they may mean another. Or they say one thing but only in a select set of circumstances would it actually apply? What we need to do is focus on clear communication, transparency, and well defined boundaries instead of relying on essentially marketing phrases in order to, you know, share our work culture with the wider job seeking or employee community. Can we just be work friends, some companies are moving away from the work family concept. Instead, I was interesting business I spoke to who wants to rebrand co worker, they want these additional qualification around what like a co worker could look like they want it to be elevated to a status that maybe some days, families might boast about how they interact like efficient coworkers. You know what another alternative that's maybe a little bit more within reach is the idea of work friends, rather than a work family. I think this approach encourages employees to build meaningful connections in the workplace whilst respecting personal boundaries. Another alternative to work family is our team is like a professional sports team. It's still in further closeness. However, in a professional and work context, though, I do think we need to be very honest about whether fostering friendships is actually a priority within the organizations we work for. If it's not, that is completely fine, let's just own it. Some companies have successfully embraced a high performance culture. That's what's important to them. And they value employees excelling in their roles, without the pressure to consider our colleagues as family members or even friends. They want to find a team member who would like to come in and do the work Excel, and probably go home at the end of the day, maybe not going out to meet colleagues after work or on the weekends. In such environments, performance takes precedence over personal connections. And if this aligns more with your organization's ethos, it might be a path worth exploring. Because we don't want to be bringing people into our organization, if you are a performance based culture, bringing someone in with the promise of work, friends and social events, when in reality, that's not the team they're going to arrive in. Similarly, if we've got a highly social team, and we're engaging someone who that's not important to them, that can be a massive misstep in terms of the cohesiveness of that team. 

Lauren Anderson [00:24:34] The reality is, is that even though we know connection is important, it's good for our mental health overall. In fact, it is right at the bottom of the list here. It's, you know, when we ask Australian workers, what does it mean? It's at the bottom of what they're looking for when they're looking to thrive at work. So what this tells me is that it's not a priority when it comes to job seekers looking for their next role, or it's not a priority for team members when they're deciding to whether or not to move on. The reality is that whilst connection is important, work life balance is more important. So essentially setting boundaries between work and home are going to be more important to job seekers considering your roles than anything else. And with such work life balance challenges currently in the market, I think it's no surprise the impact this is having on people's mental health. We've nearly half or 46% of workers surveyed report having experienced stress or burnout in their current or most recent job. So really, no matter how much we want to sing about the you know, from the rooftops about our incredible culture connection, jobseekers would mainly like to take something off their plate, rather than add a social aspect on. In fact, if you really want to lean into what job seekers are looking for 48% of workers believed that salary is the main driver of workplace wellbeing, it is the primary motivator, especially for the 50% of workers who are contemplating seeking a new opportunity in the next 12 months. After all, it is the number one incentive for workers to stay with a current employer. So I've taken you on quite a roller coaster, I'm highly aware of that from leasing work families to telling you to throw out connection or together to telling you how important connection is to the people that you work with. So let me summarize where we go from here. One, from work hard play hard to work families, I think the time has come to remove these from our job ads and company pages, these marketing quips are seen through by job seekers, especially a way mirroring language that's used in other people's businesses doesn't necessarily give insight into maybe the unique community that you have. Transparency is king in this market. And so his salary, which leads me to number two, instead of focusing on, you know, maybe something that we think people might like, let's focus on what really matters to job seekers salary, work life balance and aligning to that business purpose. But finally, I don't want this to be a webinar that's about abandoning connection. abandon it in your job ads, yes, the market, it's not driving job seekers, it's wasted space, potentially on your job ads, or company pages, but don't abandon it within your businesses. I think there is such you know, it does matter, it adds an incredible amount of depth to the relationships we have. And if we're getting everything else, right, if we're getting pay, right, if we're getting work life balance, right? If we're getting mental health right, then having fantastic connection with our team members is still a real positive, it's just not going to have job seekers, you know, piling through the door is just not the number one thing on their list. So before we move into a q&a, I just wanted to share this with you. This is I have a wealth of data available at my fingertips as part of indeed team everything from job seeker insights to workplace well being to what's driving Gen Zed, or female job seekers in particular industries to make certain decisions. So if you would like to dig in a little bit deeper, please feel free to book a session with me. And with that, Kylie, what curly questions have we got today? 

Kylie Speer [00:28:22] Well, thank you, firstly, so much, Lauren, for such a fun and informative presentation. As you mentioned, we will start the q&a section of today's webinar. In the time we have remaining, we've got a bunch of time, which is great. To our attendees, thank you for submitting the questions that you've sent in today. And also for your great comments that have come through Lauren, we've had not sure if you've seen a couple of people commenting on the job ads that you showcased in the polls and how hard they some of the words use were which is, which is quite interesting to your very point. The first question we have for the q&a is it's an anonymous one. And it is does this notion or approach differ at all for a family run business? 

Lauren Anderson [00:29:10] Oh, that's so interesting, because I guess the we've been taking corporate riot where literally, it's a family, whereas I guess with a work a family run business, it isn't literal family. I do think it's important to be cautious in that context. Because, you know, genuinely I would be answering the question, when someone joins that team. Are they joining your family? Or are they joining your family run business? And what is the difference between those two things? I think there will be some uniqueness about working within a family business that would be helpful to be transparent about what would that look like? How involved in decision making might you be? You know, what dynamic might that look like in a team? I know I've worked for a few family businesses. It can be an interesting place to work a little bit different to a traditional corporate structure, but I don't think that it isn't necessarily going to be a draw card necessarily above some of the other things we've seen for jobseekers. So I still would be hesitating, throwing work family out there as my number one benefit in a family business. 

Kylie Speer [00:30:14] Thank you. Another comment has just come through from Leanne Edmonds. Lauren, that was a fantastic presentation. Thank you couldn't agree more. So that's very sweet. We have a question as well, that's come through from Kirti Jacobs, which is basically asking you to clarify a little bit more on the statement that salary and work life balance seem to matter more to Australian candidates slash workers, then connection and org purpose.  

Lauren Anderson [00:30:43] Yes. So this is a, I guess, a statistic that is reinforced quite regularly in our research, particularly since post pandemic recovery. And I think we have to remember in this economic climate, that we're also living with a cost of living crisis for many Australians. What has become quite obvious, we look at two key markets where we can see this, you know, the reasons that Australians apply for jobs, and the benefits that they consider when they're looking at that. So the reasons that Australians hit the Apply button, the number one is paying compensation, that is the key driver closely followed by work life balance, and flexible working arrangements. Now they do pay remains number one, regardless of industry. So regardless of how we split that by sector, flexible working hours, and work life balance, and job security do jostle for second, third and fourth spot, or regular basis, depending on where we're talking about. But on the benefits side of things. It's so intriguing, and it's such an Australian concept, this work life balance I alluded to, because I partake in this research as part of an international team. It just doesn't feature in my colleagues or you know, India, Italy and the US event. But when we asked Australians what are the top benefits that you consider when looking for a job, flexible working hours and work life balance feature in that top five, regardless of how we split there, right? So connection is important for some industries. But again, it sort of plays in the five to 10, rather than in the one to five, if that makes sense?  

Kylie Speer [00:32:23] Yeah, it does. Okay, the next question is another anonymous one, do the red flags for job seekers or employees differ state by state or internationally? 

Lauren Anderson [00:32:35] State by state? not dramatically, there can be a trend based on industry. So obviously, who has such a strong mining contingent that just doesn't necessarily exist in other states? So that can have some suggestion on the data when we're looking at very large sample sizes. But Australia more broadly, doesn't change dramatically more where I think there's worthy of further discussion is if you are hiring a particular, you know, perhaps you're looking to hire more women into the workforce, perhaps you're in over represented masculine dominant industry that can change a little bit. generationally, this can have a little bit of change as well. The other element that I often cut the data by out of curiosity is, you know, in terms of seniority level, so if you're an individual contributor, or you're in the C suite, that can have a big difference in terms of what your motivators are. So what maybe those red and green flags are what's going to drive you to do a behavior internationally, though, huge differences. Really, really fascinating. What will drive a job seeker in a Canadian market compared to an Australian market, given all of the international factors at play? If you are internationally hiring or you're part of an international business, again, please don't hesitate to reach out to us as a business that with a footprint all over the globe. That's something we can share as well if it's intriguing to you.  

Kylie Speer [00:34:00] Awesome. Thank you, Lauren. The next question we have is come through from Wendy, Jeffery, Lonnie, and Wendy's question is much coming up out about businesses promoting they have a focus on DE&I use of pronouns Welcome to Country.  

Lauren Anderson [00:34:18] Interesting. So we read some research on diversity, inclusion and belonging, sort of in the first half of 2023. And what we found was that eight out of 10 job seekers believe that the business they apply to should promote diversity and inclusion in their workforce. So it is a strong factor. does it sit above salary work life balance, flexibility? No, but it is, it is a consideration when we also see it is the job seeker journey has changed. So people like 48% or 47% I'll have to, you can check me on that stat of job seekers will find it job that they're looking for, then they'll go look at reviews, then they'll come back and apply for the job. And what we're finding in that pause in the middle is this is where they'll do more research into company culture and diversity and inclusion policies and practices would fit into this framework. So that's kind of from the job seeker lens, it is a factor, it is a consideration. And it is a growing consideration. In terms of Welcome to Country and pronoun usage. There's not a lot of formalized research in Australia on this. So it's difficult to comment. I know anecdotally, because I consult across a number of industries and sectors, there is a rise in allowing people to in when it comes to pronouns to declare their pronouns voluntarily, in their own work on their email signature, or even in their internal database. And then they're welcome to country personally, in my world has grown in popularity. Yeah. But it's not necessarily been dug any deeper than that, I'd say at this stage. So it would be interesting to see how this evolves. Yeah. 

Kylie Speer [00:36:04] Thank you, Lauren, we have another excellent question from Kurti, about the all important hybrid slash, even full time, remote work contexts, what are some things we can do beyond EAP and staff events to reduce loneliness at work? 

Lauren Anderson [00:36:21] I think this is a larger challenge than the workplace. And I don't say that to dissuade anyone from trying their very best. I think where we've maybe come unstuck is we're trying to solve a very individual program problem, sorry, from a very large scale approach. We're looking at large corporate events, we're looking at large gatherings of people. Where I think there's an opportunity to solve for loneliness, his PDP, it is individual to individual, it is smaller teams. And where I, again, it's hard to measure the success of these programs, particularly because there's so many stresses in people's life at the moment external to their work environment, is we've seen some businesses move away from holiday parties or large corporate engagements, or even functions, and move to divvying up cash within their smaller teams and businesses to use as they see fit on an activity that would help to bring those individual units closer together. I do think there is a certain point where, and I think it's difficult, the world of work today is different, fundamentally different in terms of what it's like, and it feels like. And whilst I acknowledge that loneliness is a huge problem, and we need to keep a close eye on it. I think we also need to be careful not to compare what we knew to what we know. And those two things, I think it can maybe get us into trouble of trying desperately to recreate an environment of the past, where what we need to do is create a new version of the future for a lot of our team members. 

Kylie Speer [00:38:04] Excellent. Well, unless there are any more questions to come through from our fabulous attendees. Today, we might look at wrapping up our webinar. Thank you so much, Lauren, for those great answers. And once again for such a fantastic presentation today. To our attendees. Thank you for joining us and of course for your participation. What Lauren took us through today was only a small sample of the data indeed can share to help inform important TA and HR decisions we've done at her fingertips from keywords jobseekers are using to find your jobs to strategies to pursue a gender diverse hiring funnel. Please do connect with Lauren directly to discuss your unique hiring challenges in this ever evolving job seeker landscape. And in the meantime, on behalf of Indeed and HRD I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day and we look forward to seeing you again hopefully soon. 

Lauren Anderson [00:39:04] Thanks, everyone.